Pantser vs plotter is the most current “identity crisis” in the writing community. Here’s my hot take: I think they’re just two phases of the same process.
I agree it is not either or. I plan and outline the beginning, but not much further than that. I discover more of the details as I go, and I can't "see" the ending until I get there. When I heard of something called the flashlight method, it resonated.
Even though I don't fully outline first, I don't consider myself a pantser. The structure is in my head. I can tell by the word count how far I am and which major plot points need to happen next. I outline as I go and plan a few chapters ahead of where I am. It is a combination.
I might need to write an article on my structure and process also.
Mmm, I love this! You build steadily as you go. Start strong and keep it strong as you plan ahead. I think what helped me move forward on my messy middle was (yes, the ugly outline that was collecting dust), but also understanding the major plot points too.
And if you write that article on your structure and process, I'll definitely read it.
Keeping a structure in your head and going off of word count and when major plot points occur is a whole other level! I learned last year about making major plot points happen at certain percentages into the plot (25% in, 50% in, etc.), and that's something I have to write down in an outline to keep it straight (at least until I get more practice with it, but it feels easier to write it down).
I don’t think you are wrong. Insert a picture of a bell curve. (you won’t let me!)
I think most people tend to one side or the other.
And some will be either right or left depending on any given day.
I can launch into a story with a hot idea, and pants my way along.
But there reaches a point when I have to think about the plot.
I prefer to think about plot now, then write, but even with a heavy-duty outline, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Choices get made, and the story pants its way along, sometimes despite the outline.
I’m sure there are outliers who need to plot every beat—at one extreme —and, at the other, authors who can juggle a dozen subplots and never need to revise any part of their work in a significant way to maintain plot logic.
I think most folks are in the middle, plotting nearer the middle of that bell curve.
How do I let you put insert images lol? Is this why people aren't using memes in the comments? Lost opportunity...
I agree with you. I feel like it may take the shape of a bell curve with most people concentrating on the middle. And I definitely agree that even if a novel is plotted, sometimes the characters or you yourself may get a little crazy at some point and do something unexpected.
IDK TBH… lol. I suspect it’s… IIRC, Substack rolled out new controls for replies, so the setting to allow attachments must be there.
But back on point, I think plotters are people who start out with an outline and end up pantsing lots of it, and pantsers start out writing but then end up plotting,
I tend to live in the Plotter-Pantser Zone, sliding more towards the Plotter end of the curve. I know, by my very nature in everything in life, I want a plan and will drive towards that plan. Free form gives me a slight bit of anxiety. However, I also know I can Pants because I have done it a lot when I was a GameMaster for Dungeons & Dragons. By the very nature of table-top RPGs, players are going to do what they want - so the GM needs to be able to improvise on the fly. That's where my Pantsing skills come into play. But games are not books (if you plan too much, you're rail-roading). In writing books/stories, a roadmap goes a long way to get me to the end.
I bet being a GameMaster is such a great way to practice creativity (aaaand pantsing). But I agree, a roadmap, or well in my case, an ugly outline goes a long way, but I do like to pants within the chapter. Do you GM professionally?
I agree with what you said in your essay, we are a little of both. I’ve done outlines for three novels. As I went from from the first to the next novel, the outline was less detailed. I simply let my muse fill in the details as I went. I don’t think I’ll ever give up on the idea of outlining, but I’ve enjoyed letting the story write itself.
Thank you John! And that's such a great progression. Trusting the outline less (or well, not bothering much with it) and letting the muse earn more control with every novel means skill.
I just winged* a murder mystery. It’s been sat in my head for years but I finally started writing it last year.
I had an idea for a gang of con artists and one of them is dead on the beach. When I started I did not have the first clue who did it, why one of the characters was naked, what was in the storage locker, or who had the real painting (all details in chapter one)
I have had to do a lot of editing. Lots of editing. But I winged the whole thing. Beginning to end. I kept notes while writing, that became my outline, but only to keep track of where anyone was.
It’s just been shortlisted for an award. So it does work.
Dang it 😂, there are so many terms on this argument. Just to keep you on the loop Colin, I learned "winger" from you, then "plantser" from the internet void and someone commented "pantliner". Though I'm sure you won't like the other because they still have the word "pants" in it.
Ah, the “winged” alternative to pantser that you and your friend are using.
I really like what you’re saying about the story living in your head for years. It had enough time to marinate and I think that makes a story feel lived in.
I’m working towards publishing, but I have a short story idea that I may publish on Substack - at the moment our hero is being chased by two thugs along the sea front with a moose head under one arm. Why? I’ll let you know if I find out.
You come up with the most bizarre stuff to try and “wing” it 😂. Looking forward to the story. That should actually be your excerpt when you promote it. It certainly caught my attention.
Really interesting take. I usually see myself as a plotter, but I do have my moments where inspiration takes hold and my writing takes a different direction. You can plan all you want, but a lot of the time, you can't foresee what actually works in the story.
I know what you mean. There are a few scenes or bits of information I was planning for my book that well… didn’t make it. I’m still holding onto them because they feel valuable to me but they don’t work in the story now. (Maybe they can be side stories)
I always consider myself a plotter since I either outline in my head or in Google docs, always knowing my beginning and end in one idea. The middle takes time for me to create. Like over the past few days, I had an idea for a short story. Technically it's a 3 year old idea, however, I barely knew it, only knowing the beginning and end. I started outlining act I, then gave up, and just started writing the actual story. The middle I had a rough idea what would happen since I knew what the characters needed, but I still winged it. When I got to act III I realized I had Deus Ex Machina and had to scratch the original finalle and I just wrote until it made sense. So, perhaps that was my first time being under the "panster" title and will probably flip flop in the future as well. Solid take you got there, just write as the art wants it to be.
Thank you Raul! And now, that journey with your story was the whole pantser vs plotter experience 😂. Sometimes the story does what it wants but I’ll admit I also like to have the beginning and the end in mind
I responded on your note, but I would say, your way makes sense...for a lot of people, but probably not all. 😉 If plotting encompasses any kind of planning/figuring out where the story is headed and not strictly setting out plot beats, then I do that as part of my brainstorming/daydreaming phase before I start setting words down.
But I do know writers who literally write into the dark with no plan and just see where it takes them. One of my friends has even written several mysteries that way, where she was solving things right along with her characters. 😂 So I think your take of people doing some of both at different parts in the process is probably true for most of us, but there will always be outliers on the very ends of the spectrum. 😉
Hahaha, I think someone talked about it being similar to a bell curve in which most of us are in the middle and there’s a small fraction at two extremes (the outliers!)
That sounds very accurate! For as much as I can't do a formal outline, I definitely acknowledge I'm not 100% pantser, although all of the planning happens in my head. But it's a lot of fun to hear about what works for others, once you get the "only one right way" out of your head. 😄
I write a fairly detailed plan. Each scene says exactly what I want to happen in it. But that's not exclusive. If something else has to (or wants to) happen, then it may.
I like to think of my plans as the road map, with certain "must see" stops along the way. But I allow myself the occasional deviation. If there is a signpost to somewhere that looks interesting, I'll turn off, secure in the knowledge that the route back to where I was and where I am going is mapped.
This gives me the freedom to explore that might be absent if I were solely pantsing. I could be afraid that I'd lose my direction, become lost, without that map.
The map also ensures that the places I have to go to - the threads that cannot be forgotten - are marked. Nobody likes to go through an edit and discover that something that seemed so important in chapter three had become totally forgotten and now requires major restructuring.
For me, I do pants, but as a romance writer, I also know this ends in a happily ever after. I tried plotting, and found I literally could not write the story afterwards. It was like "I already told you the story. What more do you want?". So for me, pantsing is more of a filled-in plot. I might go back and add things later, but on the whole, it's how my brain works.
Yes! And since I write a lot of battle it's a save the girl a lot in the end. But... I do have a warrior female planned in one story and it might be a save the dude. 😆
😆 Well, I know he is a big mountain of a man, so that might not be an option, and we have to settle for more of a fireman's carry, but it would be hysterical!
I've seen people say "Plantser" to describe being both. I agree with your take on it. My process can get kind of weird because I often think ahead to what will happen, but I don't outline it on paper; the action is in my head. That's still a form of plotting, though. And even if I do outline (in my head or on paper), I'll likely end up going "off script" (pantsing) in the actual writing. For example, a character I thought was going to say one thing will end up saying something else because it fits them better. Or the action sequence will be completely rewritten. Thank you for the article on this!
Thank you for reading Li! “Plantser” is another word I’m hearing from people in this whole discussion along with “plantliner” and “winger”. Also, characters going off script, well, that’s real. You think you know them and then they just... don't cooperate.
I agree it is not either or. I plan and outline the beginning, but not much further than that. I discover more of the details as I go, and I can't "see" the ending until I get there. When I heard of something called the flashlight method, it resonated.
Even though I don't fully outline first, I don't consider myself a pantser. The structure is in my head. I can tell by the word count how far I am and which major plot points need to happen next. I outline as I go and plan a few chapters ahead of where I am. It is a combination.
I might need to write an article on my structure and process also.
Mmm, I love this! You build steadily as you go. Start strong and keep it strong as you plan ahead. I think what helped me move forward on my messy middle was (yes, the ugly outline that was collecting dust), but also understanding the major plot points too.
And if you write that article on your structure and process, I'll definitely read it.
Keeping a structure in your head and going off of word count and when major plot points occur is a whole other level! I learned last year about making major plot points happen at certain percentages into the plot (25% in, 50% in, etc.), and that's something I have to write down in an outline to keep it straight (at least until I get more practice with it, but it feels easier to write it down).
I don’t think you are wrong. Insert a picture of a bell curve. (you won’t let me!)
I think most people tend to one side or the other.
And some will be either right or left depending on any given day.
I can launch into a story with a hot idea, and pants my way along.
But there reaches a point when I have to think about the plot.
I prefer to think about plot now, then write, but even with a heavy-duty outline, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Choices get made, and the story pants its way along, sometimes despite the outline.
I’m sure there are outliers who need to plot every beat—at one extreme —and, at the other, authors who can juggle a dozen subplots and never need to revise any part of their work in a significant way to maintain plot logic.
I think most folks are in the middle, plotting nearer the middle of that bell curve.
How do I let you put insert images lol? Is this why people aren't using memes in the comments? Lost opportunity...
I agree with you. I feel like it may take the shape of a bell curve with most people concentrating on the middle. And I definitely agree that even if a novel is plotted, sometimes the characters or you yourself may get a little crazy at some point and do something unexpected.
IDK TBH… lol. I suspect it’s… IIRC, Substack rolled out new controls for replies, so the setting to allow attachments must be there.
But back on point, I think plotters are people who start out with an outline and end up pantsing lots of it, and pantsers start out writing but then end up plotting,
I have to check my controls or look for a guide in Google because the only thing I was ablet o set was a comment on rules for the comment section.
And I agree with you, I have an ugly outline but I pants a lot within a chapter.
I tend to live in the Plotter-Pantser Zone, sliding more towards the Plotter end of the curve. I know, by my very nature in everything in life, I want a plan and will drive towards that plan. Free form gives me a slight bit of anxiety. However, I also know I can Pants because I have done it a lot when I was a GameMaster for Dungeons & Dragons. By the very nature of table-top RPGs, players are going to do what they want - so the GM needs to be able to improvise on the fly. That's where my Pantsing skills come into play. But games are not books (if you plan too much, you're rail-roading). In writing books/stories, a roadmap goes a long way to get me to the end.
I bet being a GameMaster is such a great way to practice creativity (aaaand pantsing). But I agree, a roadmap, or well in my case, an ugly outline goes a long way, but I do like to pants within the chapter. Do you GM professionally?
Nope. Just casually.
I agree with what you said in your essay, we are a little of both. I’ve done outlines for three novels. As I went from from the first to the next novel, the outline was less detailed. I simply let my muse fill in the details as I went. I don’t think I’ll ever give up on the idea of outlining, but I’ve enjoyed letting the story write itself.
Thank you John! And that's such a great progression. Trusting the outline less (or well, not bothering much with it) and letting the muse earn more control with every novel means skill.
I just winged* a murder mystery. It’s been sat in my head for years but I finally started writing it last year.
I had an idea for a gang of con artists and one of them is dead on the beach. When I started I did not have the first clue who did it, why one of the characters was naked, what was in the storage locker, or who had the real painting (all details in chapter one)
I have had to do a lot of editing. Lots of editing. But I winged the whole thing. Beginning to end. I kept notes while writing, that became my outline, but only to keep track of where anyone was.
It’s just been shortlisted for an award. So it does work.
*winger: coined by a friend who doesn’t want to think about pants
Dang it 😂, there are so many terms on this argument. Just to keep you on the loop Colin, I learned "winger" from you, then "plantser" from the internet void and someone commented "pantliner". Though I'm sure you won't like the other because they still have the word "pants" in it.
I know someone who calls themselves a “discovery writer” rather than a pantser, so you can add that one to your list
Oh well, another one!
Ah, the “winged” alternative to pantser that you and your friend are using.
I really like what you’re saying about the story living in your head for years. It had enough time to marinate and I think that makes a story feel lived in.
Did you published anywhere in Substack?
I love murder mysteries.
No, so far it’s only on Wattpad.
I’m working towards publishing, but I have a short story idea that I may publish on Substack - at the moment our hero is being chased by two thugs along the sea front with a moose head under one arm. Why? I’ll let you know if I find out.
You come up with the most bizarre stuff to try and “wing” it 😂. Looking forward to the story. That should actually be your excerpt when you promote it. It certainly caught my attention.
Really interesting take. I usually see myself as a plotter, but I do have my moments where inspiration takes hold and my writing takes a different direction. You can plan all you want, but a lot of the time, you can't foresee what actually works in the story.
I know what you mean. There are a few scenes or bits of information I was planning for my book that well… didn’t make it. I’m still holding onto them because they feel valuable to me but they don’t work in the story now. (Maybe they can be side stories)
Yeah, they will be useful in some way. It's comforting to think of that the work you put in will never be a waste.
I always consider myself a plotter since I either outline in my head or in Google docs, always knowing my beginning and end in one idea. The middle takes time for me to create. Like over the past few days, I had an idea for a short story. Technically it's a 3 year old idea, however, I barely knew it, only knowing the beginning and end. I started outlining act I, then gave up, and just started writing the actual story. The middle I had a rough idea what would happen since I knew what the characters needed, but I still winged it. When I got to act III I realized I had Deus Ex Machina and had to scratch the original finalle and I just wrote until it made sense. So, perhaps that was my first time being under the "panster" title and will probably flip flop in the future as well. Solid take you got there, just write as the art wants it to be.
Thank you Raul! And now, that journey with your story was the whole pantser vs plotter experience 😂. Sometimes the story does what it wants but I’ll admit I also like to have the beginning and the end in mind
I responded on your note, but I would say, your way makes sense...for a lot of people, but probably not all. 😉 If plotting encompasses any kind of planning/figuring out where the story is headed and not strictly setting out plot beats, then I do that as part of my brainstorming/daydreaming phase before I start setting words down.
But I do know writers who literally write into the dark with no plan and just see where it takes them. One of my friends has even written several mysteries that way, where she was solving things right along with her characters. 😂 So I think your take of people doing some of both at different parts in the process is probably true for most of us, but there will always be outliers on the very ends of the spectrum. 😉
Hahaha, I think someone talked about it being similar to a bell curve in which most of us are in the middle and there’s a small fraction at two extremes (the outliers!)
That sounds very accurate! For as much as I can't do a formal outline, I definitely acknowledge I'm not 100% pantser, although all of the planning happens in my head. But it's a lot of fun to hear about what works for others, once you get the "only one right way" out of your head. 😄
I write a fairly detailed plan. Each scene says exactly what I want to happen in it. But that's not exclusive. If something else has to (or wants to) happen, then it may.
I like to think of my plans as the road map, with certain "must see" stops along the way. But I allow myself the occasional deviation. If there is a signpost to somewhere that looks interesting, I'll turn off, secure in the knowledge that the route back to where I was and where I am going is mapped.
This gives me the freedom to explore that might be absent if I were solely pantsing. I could be afraid that I'd lose my direction, become lost, without that map.
The map also ensures that the places I have to go to - the threads that cannot be forgotten - are marked. Nobody likes to go through an edit and discover that something that seemed so important in chapter three had become totally forgotten and now requires major restructuring.
This is a clever way of thinking about it! A road map with “must see” stops but also you’re not so restrictive that you can’t wander around a little.
I think in most cases you are right.
For me, I do pants, but as a romance writer, I also know this ends in a happily ever after. I tried plotting, and found I literally could not write the story afterwards. It was like "I already told you the story. What more do you want?". So for me, pantsing is more of a filled-in plot. I might go back and add things later, but on the whole, it's how my brain works.
“I already told you the story, what more do you want?” (crosses arms) 😂
I didn’t think about it that way, but you’re right that with romance you know what you’re aiming for, a happy ending!
Yes! And since I write a lot of battle it's a save the girl a lot in the end. But... I do have a warrior female planned in one story and it might be a save the dude. 😆
Uhhh, I like that. It’s refreshing (please make her carry him bride style, if it fits the story, of course!)
😆 Well, I know he is a big mountain of a man, so that might not be an option, and we have to settle for more of a fireman's carry, but it would be hysterical!
I’ll take it!!!
I've seen people say "Plantser" to describe being both. I agree with your take on it. My process can get kind of weird because I often think ahead to what will happen, but I don't outline it on paper; the action is in my head. That's still a form of plotting, though. And even if I do outline (in my head or on paper), I'll likely end up going "off script" (pantsing) in the actual writing. For example, a character I thought was going to say one thing will end up saying something else because it fits them better. Or the action sequence will be completely rewritten. Thank you for the article on this!
Thank you for reading Li! “Plantser” is another word I’m hearing from people in this whole discussion along with “plantliner” and “winger”. Also, characters going off script, well, that’s real. You think you know them and then they just... don't cooperate.
I've never heard of "plantliner" before! It can be very fun to discover a new angle to a character.
https://adamcfrance.substack.com/p/are-you-a-pantser-or-plotter?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=10bijt